Eli Bitan: My friend Mandy Grossman says, over the years, what would the Haredi public do on Independence Day? We discuss whether to celebrate or not. And this year, God bless him, all of Israeli society is doing the same thing - and we discuss whether to celebrate or not, God bless him, this is of course in the worst circumstances, but at least regarding the debate - the Haredi were right. And I'm laughing, of course. At the beginning of a week like this, which is going to be a very difficult week, I want to hear your position.
Sherry Roth, what is your position on Independence Day?
Want more news, videos and stories? Join the Haredim 10 WhatsApp channel >>
Sherry: This year, or ever?
Mandy: That's it, that's it, the question is this, I'll make it easy for you: Assuming that we celebrate Independence Day, what do we do on it? - That's the question.
Shari: First of all, I want to talk about the word 'independence.' Is there still a person in this country who thinks that the State of Israel is independent? Given that the US, like a cute commander from above, tells it, 'Sit down, Israel' - it sits, 'Stand up' - it stands. And if it doesn't obey, it simply won't have a weapon. I think this week it was exposed in its full force. Now explain to me, when Israelis say 'independence', 'Independence Day' what they mean for God's sake, I try to understand it every year, but this year it seems to me that they don't understand either. There is no independence here, gentlemen, this is not an independent state!
Mandy: I wanted to hear from you about this year...
Sherry: Nothing needs to be said about this year, it speaks for itself.
Mandy: Assuming we had independent weapons without dependence on the US, would you celebrate Independence Day?
Sherry: So we need to return to the issue of a democratic Jewish state, because that's how it was established, and when you say an independent state and want to celebrate Independence Day, that includes standing behind the words 'Jewish' and 'democratic.' That's how the state was established, that's the basis of its Declaration of Independence. Is it Jewish enough for my taste? No. Democratic enough for Anat's taste? No. So where is the independence and where is the holiday?
Anat Saragosti: I will say a word to the minister about the matter of the US and Israel, I don't think there is a country on earth that is so independent that it doesn't have to adjust its interests to another country that is bigger than it and more powerful than it and that it depends on.
Sherry: Yes, USA, Russia, China.
Anat: Not true, all countries must adapt themselves to international agreements, there is no such thing as complete independence.
Sherry: Okay, that's not what we're talking about.
Anat: There is no country like it in the world. Not just Israel. But I want to go to Memorial Day. I come from a bereaved family, my father also lost his brother in the War of Independence and my mother lost her brother in Gaza in a reprisal operation in 1957. And every year we go to Mount Herzl in Jerusalem and hear, no matter who the politician is who is the head of government, that their sacrifice will not be in vain and that in their death they gave us life. We know all these sayings that we all grew up on, no matter what sector we came from.
And I wonder: How much content is there in this thing, in these words that are supposed to touch, to unite, to connect all of us who are bereaved families, no matter what sector, opinion or settlement in the country we are from, we all experience the same pain, the same loss and the same bereavement. The question is whether there is any meaning to the words that this sacrifice will not be in vain. The question is whether we should worry. We should do everything, but everything to prevent the next war. And to my impression, we are not doing anything to prevent the next war. And as evidence, this war that we have been in for 7 months, we do not see its end date, we do not see what will happen after it ends and how we prevent the next victims.
When we are fighting for the third time in Jabaliya, I heard this morning, and just yesterday 5 people were killed and I don't know who else may, I hope not, be killed in the coming days in the third occupation of Jabaliya. And that should bother us. This thing, of doing everything, everything, everything, because nothing is worth these lives. Even at the price of stopping the war, even at the painful price of paying political prices. Nothing is worth the lives of young people aged 20, 19, 30, singles, married, parents of children. There is no price worth these lives, that is what we need all the time to be constantly before our eyes. And that is what I would expect to be before the eyes of our leaders, precisely on this day, precisely when we stand in front of these silent graves of young people whose lives were cut short at the age of 20.
I stand in front of the grave of my uncle, who was 20, and my other uncle, who was 19, and I have no words. And I want to express my feelings, because I'm fed up with this.
Eli: Wow, extremely poignant. After things like this, it's hard to continue, after all, we're in a week like this, and besides the personal, family, and national issues, there's also the issue of the ceremonies themselves, which are held and broadcast, and I'd love to hear from both of you on the matter.
Anat: It seems that in recent years there has been some erosion of the statehood of these ceremonies. And there is a stir, even in Miri Regev's previous term she tried to make changes to the statehood of the ceremonies and certainly in this round. I admit that there is no good solution to this matter, no solution that will both preserve the continuity and the tradition and the ceremonies and their statehood and also deal with this terrible massacre that took place on October 7 and the war that followed. I don't think there is a good solution, and so I modestly say that I have no idea what needs to be done, I really have no idea. Like, a feeling of great discomfort and pain.
Sari: I want to connect with the end of Anat's previous words on the subject of Remembrance Day. In our family, it's more about Jerusalem Day, but it's also on the same planet as Remembrance Day, it doesn't matter. We are also in the shadow of the loss of my mother-in-law's brother, a dear soldier named Yehoshua Diamant, the 14th, who was killed in the Six-Day War to liberate Jerusalem. A minute before, when he already knew he was going to die, he said: 'Tell my parents that I was killed for Jerusalem.'.
And I think that many of those who fall, maybe even all of them, fall with the feeling that they are dying for others. So when Anat says, why are they dying, and they are so young, I think he was killed because he knew it was so that others would not be killed. Whoever is killed today in Gaza is doing it so that children, babies, women, old men and women in the envelope will not be killed, everyone who was killed there on October 7 and could be killed there. Residents of the envelope, residents of Kfar Gaza, Nir Oz, Ashkelon, Be'er Sheva, everyone. All of us, in fact, the entire State of Israel. Every soldier who goes to fight goes with the feeling that he is protecting all of us in the end, and those who die with this feeling like Yehoshua, whose grave I also went to on Mount Herzl for many years and who participated in the ceremony, I don't always succeed but I always want to.
There was also a movie about him on TV and he was truly a heroic figure that many grew up with his legacy. He was very clear that his young life, and he was already engaged and about to get married, he sacrificed so that we could all live here in this country. There is no such thing as a coincidence.
This war in Gaza didn't start because we woke up one morning and the country was bored and it was looking for 'Come on, let's fight in Gaza.' It did it after many years of holding back, of operations of this and that, of surgeons, because we really didn't want war. But we all understood on October 7th and October 8th and October 9th, and slowly we forgot why we gathered for this battle. We didn't gather for it because we wanted to kill small children in Gaza, in their sleep or in the ruins of their homes, but because we have security strips inside us, in the north and the south, because there are residents waiting to return home. And there are residents in Sderot who have returned home and are still being shelled. That's why we are there!
Eli: Painful and excellent things from both of you, so to speak, you have risen to greatness this week!
