Raviv Drucker: Condolences on the death of your brother in battle, Israel Yudkin. Tell us a little about him and the circumstances of his death.
Dovi Yudkin: So first of all, Israel grew up in an ultra-Orthodox home, we are a Haredi family in a Chabad village, four brothers who serve.
Drucker: Including you, who is still serving these days.
Want more news, videos and stories? Join the Haredim 10 WhatsApp channel >>
Dovi: Yes, I am a company commander, a major in the reserves in the north. Israel, the youngest brother, was a company commander in the Netzah Yehuda Battalion, killed in the northern Gaza Strip by sniper fire.
Drucker: And you came here to lead the struggle so that the words "Ya"d will be written on the tombstone, "May God raise his blood," the security establishment is currently refusing. Why is this word so important to you?
Dubi: So first of all, the letters "Yid" are letters that are an expression in the Jewish people, for every fallen man who fell bravely in the face of an enemy, this is a Jewish tradition and law that is thousands of years old. The meaning of this is: God will raise his blood, God will take revenge, instead of us taking revenge - God will take revenge for us, and the second meaning is that God will raise his blood, meaning will raise him to life. And this is such a simple Jewish concept, this is not our struggle for Israel either, this is the struggle of the entire people of Israel! I'm telling you, wherever we go, the whole country, the whole people, even in the Knesset there was a signature on MK Yulia Malinovsky's petition, everyone! The Knesset signed! All the parties!
Raviv: The Defense Ministry says, as far as I understand, we fear a situation where anyone will try to make a small change in the wording of the tombstone, and therefore we want uniformity and have designated a personal area on the tombstone. If I understand correctly, it's more towards the feet, not on us, where anyone can insert any text they want. What is your problem with this matter?
Dovi: First of all, it is against Jewish law to put on your feet...
Raviv: Oh, is there an explicit Jewish law where it should be?
Dubi: Yes, yes, this is explicit Jewish law, with God's help we will also get to publish it, I'm simply collecting all of this, because everyone simply has their own rabbis, I want to publish a document that includes them all. The Lubavitcher Rebbe also said that it is really important, every time you say "Ya"d it raises the soul to the top and gives the soul rest. Another thing: When the Ministry of Defense talks about unity, yesterday we interviewed Eli Ben Shem on one of the channels...
Raviv: Chairman of 'Yad Labanim'...
Dubi: Right. And he explicitly says that today the cemeteries look like a circus, everyone does whatever they want there... and the Ministry of Defense itself, OK? A few weeks ago, he approved for a bereaved family from the LGBT community to write 'Mom, Mom and Dad.' Now, they didn't cause any problems, as soon as they asked for it - they received it at that moment. Without convening a committee, no Minister of Defense, no MKs, they were simply respected.
Raviv: Without expressing a position on your request, I'm not sure it's the same thing...
Dubi: This is a private request, we are talking about a request that the entire Jewish people are making, and I'll tell you something simple: So many families have contacted us since we contacted the media, that they also requested this from the Ministry of Defense, but for the entire bereaved family, really, we don't have the mental capacity to deal with a ministry, with such bodies, and there are so many bereaved families who tell us: 'Listen, we just gave up.'.
Raviv: From the body language, I think Limor is going to support you...
Limor Livnat: Absolutely. First of all, it's true that there is a uniform text, so that there is a certain uniformity and that not every family can write whatever they want. But God will raise his blood, it's truly a Jewish text. On the one hand, we want to mobilize the Haredim, and on the other hand we say, 'No, no, no... We'll be content with 'Zichrono lebaraka', and Z"l, and God will raise his blood no.
Raviv: And what would you write about a Druze soldier?
Limor: There is no reason in the world, it is completely possible, in my opinion the Ministry of Defense should act wisely, act wisely and allow this truly so logical, so Jewish thing, because otherwise it would truly be a lack of sense.
Maggie Otsari: First of all, I'm really sorry. And secondly, I want to say, and I'm sorry that I don't agree. My heart goes out to you, but a few months ago, when Sergeant Ron Sherman was buried, his mother wanted to put the following text on the tombstone: 'Ron Sherman was kidnapped, robbed, and sacrificed in Gaza by the government of default in the October 7th disaster,' but they wouldn't let her.
Limor: That's a huge difference.
Maggie: Who decides what the difference is? This is a bereaved family, who lost the most precious thing to them, and I want to say one more thing: A soldier, when he enlists in the IDF, has a contract between him and the army, he can't do whatever he wants. He lives and dies as a soldier.
Raviv: But he's not released from the contract after he sacrificed his life?
Maggie: I think the meaning of the IDF is that we stop being religious, secular, right-wing, left-wing, the second we enter the army.
Shari Roth: This is exactly why Haredim don't join the army! Exactly because of what you say! Because we stop being Haredim, Jews... We're talking about the Jewish people, we're not talking about just someone who wrote a text or a recitation in rhyme!
Maggie: Good, I also stopped being secular when I joined the army.
Dovi: Can I read something from the Ministry of Defense website?
Raviv: You'll read it soon, Gil Sonia.
Gil Tamari: There is a formula! There is a formula that soldiers who fell from the War of Independence to this day are the formula that appears on the tombstones. There is no reason in the world to change it, and I agree with Maggie, that the moment someone enlists in the army, in the army we don't do politics, we don't care if we are secular or religious, if we are from the LGBT community...
Sherry: Good thing you said that! Good thing you said that...
Gil: Everyone should be the same... My heart goes out, personally I would say 'yes', yes, put on the tombstone what...you deserve. But we must maintain this principle... Druze, as well as other minorities, will feel good.
Shari: Haredim, listen to what Gil Tamari, a respected writer, says!
Dubi: Okay, so now they're constantly talking in the country about 'ultra-Orthodox recruitment, ultra-Orthodox recruitment.' And that 'they'll make the adjustments.' My brother enlisted in a Haredi battalion! I also served in the regular army in the Haredi battalion.
I'll read to you from the Defense Ministry's website what it commits to when it recruits Haredim: "The Haredi Nahal Battalion 'Netzah Yehuda' was established 15 years ago, in cooperation with the rabbis, with the aim of enabling combat military service in the IDF alongside full maintenance of the Haredi lifestyle!" This is the contract! From the Defense Ministry! That it recruited my brother!
""Now, if the Ministry of Defense doesn't allow us to have an ultra-Orthodox lifestyle, that's my lifestyle! This is the tombstone! Furthermore, I'll tell you that when my brother was killed, army representatives came to the family, to the Chabad village, my parents are ultra-Orthodox, and told them: 'We are simple people, we lost the most precious thing to us, we don't want to be in conflict, we are not people of war. Can we manage? The army representatives explicitly, out loud, told my parents: 'Any request you want will be granted'!"
""There were many conflicts that the army made adjustments to, including in terms of spending, and after three weeks of army representatives, righteous men, accompanying us, there was an officer accompanying us, representatives from the Ministry of Defense arrived: 'Hello, no, we are the Ministry of Defense, we are not affiliated with the army, we have our own affairs, what they promised you will not happen and will not happen.'.
""And I'm telling you, I'm a major in the reserves, company commander, two days ago I found myself in something very big in the north, in uniform, in the middle of the night a friend came to me with a cell phone and said to me, 'Listen, here's your mother being interviewed on television.' And I look, and I see my mother crying, in front of the entire people of Israel. I lost a brother, it's not enough that I educated him, I'm coming to the thirtieth day, which is last Thursday, the tombstone is smooth! This is what the state gave me after 12 years of service? To the entire bereaved family? A smooth tombstone! My mother should cry in front of the entire people of Israel!
""And the most humiliating thing is that they issue ministry statements here, 'We are in touch with the family,' we have no one to contact at the Defense Ministry, no representative who will let us talk to him. If the family now wants to decide on the military version, we have no contact person. We have no representative at all, we don't know. None! No one is in touch with us!
Raviv: Dovi, I'll tell you a word about this. I strongly disagree with this position, both on the Ron Sherman issue and on this issue, that 'we are soldiers' and that there should be uniformity. At least in her situation, in my opinion, everyone will write what they want. Nothing will happen if someone is secular and wants to write that God betrayed him, let him write that too, and if he wants to write that the IDF betrayed him, or the state betrayed him, at least in their death, in my opinion, let them write what they want. And that's just on my own behalf.
Dubi: Last sentence: Yesterday there was a debate in the Knesset and the Minister of Defense instructed the committee to convene, 24 hours have passed, the committee has not convened, we also do not know when it will convene, we are not connected to it, we are still left with a smooth tombstone. This is the face of the country! The tombstone of a fallen man, of a man who was killed on the state's mission, and the state gave us, the family, a smooth tombstone! This is the face of the country. A smooth tombstone!
Sari: I want to say something: There is a document from the Defense Ministry that sat down with Major General Eliezer Shkedi and it clearly says there that when they sat down with the great men of Israel, who I know who they are, then, when they established Netzach Yehuda, they made promises to them but the army broke the trust time and time again. And here is the example!
Raviv: Absolutely fine. Then we won't recruit Haredim.
Sherry: Try...
