Oded Ben Ami: Let's talk now about the draft law, or by its other name: the draft evasion law. Today, the High Court of Justice heard a number of petitions from various organizations demanding the conscription of all ultra-Orthodox men who are liable for conscription. This discussion reached a high pitch, when one of the mothers burst out during it and demanded that the ultra-Orthodox be conscripted so that they would help with the burden on the fighters. Greetings to Shari Roth, the ultra-Orthodox journalist, and greetings to Rabbi Yair Paran, a reservist and director of a middle school.
Minister, the war continues, the IDF is missing thousands of fighters, and the Haredim, even now, refuse to get under the stretcher, to bear the burden.
Shari: Especially now, I think. Because in the past, there was legitimacy for those who didn't learn to go to all kinds of units, 'Netzah Yehuda', and today there is still the 'Hashmonaim', and there could be some kind of solution... What happened is that all the rabbis, who were always in the Haredi mainstream, suddenly became the 'Yerushalmi faction,' the extremists. I really feel the pain of that mother who is shouting there, 'Conscript,' 'Conscript the Haredim.' I'm just asking her the million-dollar question: How do you do it? Give me the formula! Let's say you pass a law now, that is, there is a law. A law of service for everyone. 80 thousand, 63 thousand, no matter what the draft cycle. Everyone go to the army. But they don't come... So what did we do with it? It would be a dead letter, the law.
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Ben Ami: By the way, if I receive a draft order, or Yair, who is next to you here, receives a draft order, and does not report, we are deserters. Then it has a meaning...
Shari: True, the Haredim will probably all soon be deserters too. But will this desertion, and the order prohibiting them from leaving the country, and depriving them of budgets, and starving them and their children... will it lead them to enlist? No!
I think what exists today is the law of evasion, because no one goes. Because even a moderate rabbi like Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef comes along and tells the guys to throw the orders down the toilet. So how can we reach some kind of mobilization? Wouldn't it be worthwhile to reach some kind of formula that would take what is available? The so-called 'on the road, be smart, not necessarily right.'.
Rabbi Yair Paran: First of all, a rabbi who says to throw the decrees in the trash is not a moderate rabbi, unfortunately. And as you said yourself, Oded, there is a state of law here, and in a state of law the law must be upheld. It is not possible for laws to be enacted that are anti-moral, that distinguish between blood and blood. It is not possible for there to be mothers who sleep well at night, and mothers who do not sleep well at night.
Sherry: How do you recruit the Haredim? That's right, that's right, that's right, but how?
Yair: My mother is in Lebanon with a son now, my brother, my brother is in the military, my brother-in-law did the reserves six months after his wedding and his wife, together. They went on the reserves for hundreds of days. My sister-in-law, when my brother is in the military, days and nights, all alone. And it can't be that we're alone under this stretcher.
Sherry: After we said 'just', how do you recruit the Haredim?
Yair: The answer is simple. First of all, you have to take action.
Sherry: Yes. Just tell me what it is.
Yair: The responsibility lies with each and every one of us in the State of Israel. There is a moral responsibility here that I am not willing to give up. I am not willing to say, 'There are no frameworks,' 'There is no this,' everyone is to blame except me. Everyone in the State of Israel needs, has personal responsibility, to say, 'I am part of this thing,' the people of Israel are in trouble, it cannot be that my brothers are in trouble and I am indifferent to their trouble. The leaders of the public are also responsible.
Sherry: And after you said all that, how?
Yair: Stop making irresponsible statements, and instead go to the army. And together with the army, build the tracks, which, by the way, some of which already exist. Both the tracks combining Torah study and military service, and also the brigades...
Sherry: We only have one problem, that the Haredim don't come... I opened a restaurant, the food is delicious, but no one comes to eat...
Yair: So I don't understand, so who is to blame if they don't arrive?
Sherry: I'm not looking for blame now.
Yair: I'm looking for the guilty! Whoever doesn't come is the guilty one!
Sherry: I'm not using a guillotine now to accuse. I'm asking you: How do you bring in the Haredim? How do you make the rabbis say, 'Go'? Just give me this formula.
Oded: Let me ask you, Shari, another question. If this were the case and suddenly there were a reverse situation, where the ultra-Orthodox, the secular, and religious Zionists would say, 'They're not coming, I'm not coming either'... then what would happen here?
Sherry: Good question.
Oded: Doesn't the Haredi sector understand? I mean, it believes with complete faith that God, blessed be He, will help us.
Yair: The Haredim don't believe in this either. I'll give you an example from a completely different place: There is now a dangerous flu, more dangerous than in previous years. The Rebbe of Gur issued an order, 'Everyone should go get vaccinated.' Why? Why not study Torah? Why not recite Tehillim? Because it is also clear to the Haredim that with Tehillim alone we will not win any war. With the final words alone we will not be saved from our enemies.
Sherry: You see, the Rebbe of Gur is not clear about this.
Yair: Of course it's clear to him.
Shari: We will not inaugurate the Rabbi of Gur or the rabbis here now. Now we are trying to find a practical solution so that the Haredim will come. Prepare a 'Hashmonaim' brigade, great. Come. How do we do that?
Oded: So why doesn't the Rebbe of Gur really give instructions to his followers?
Sherry: Because it's probably not like the flu...
Yair: This is truly blasphemy.
Sherry: But after we've said all of these things, how do you practically recruit... preparing a brigade, routes, investing money from your and my tax dollars. How do you get the Haredim there?
Yair: It's their responsibility to come.
Shari: We imposed responsibility, we gave punishments, you don't want to hang all the Haredim on a tree...
Oded: Suggest it to us, Shari. How is it right to bring in the Haredim?.
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Sari: I know it won't pass the High Court of Justice test, but if I were a judge - I say what can we accept right now? Can you give 10,000? Give what you have. I say, it's not fair, and Yair will say, and rightly so, it's not fair, because my sister, and my family members, and those were killed, and with everything I agree, but I say, take what you can. That's what Yuli Edelstein says, that's what Yisrael Katz says. So everyone thinks they're serving Netanyahu, no. They're serving the logic that says... one bird in the hand is better than tens of thousands on a tree.
Oded: Okay, but today, the IDF says today in response to the High Court, we can now recruit 5,000, but next year I will recruit everyone!
Sherry: But he can't recruit those who don't come!
Oded: I can, all of them.
Sherry: Right! If they come! But when you send 3,000 orders and only a few dozen come, and they're not that religious either...
Yair: But it's a shame for the public you come from!
Sherry: We've said it all. Shame on you, hang them on the tree...
Yair: It's impossible, it's impossible to keep lying like this. It's a shame!
Sherry: Great, you hung me on the tree, let's move on to the 'how'.
Oded: It's completely impersonal.
Yair: It's not, God forbid, God forbid, Sherry, God forbid, we drank coffee outside, and we'll be happy afterwards too, everything's fine. And that's important to say too.
Sherry: Of course, it's all about friendship.
Yair: And this is also important to say because we are brothers and we are one people.
Sherry: And he is another great-grandson of a rabbi that I admired so much.
Yair: And there won't be a civil war here, and we are truly friends.
Sherry: That's what I'm afraid of, by the way, I'm not sure there won't be a civil war in the end. Because as soon as 80,000 get a warrant and go to jail...
Yair: They won't go to jail, we'll deprive them of their budgets.
Shari: Haredim know how to live without budgets.
Yair: No, that's not true. Haredi society will collapse in on itself.
Sherry: It will be difficult, but the Haredim have already been through difficult things.
Yair: She will collapse into herself, and that's a good thing.
Shari: She is not! The Eternal Israel will not lie, God Almighty will be with them.
Yair: No, Netzach Yisrael will not lie at all, but Netzach Yisrael will come to the army and help the people of Israel when they are in trouble...
Sherry: Believe me, they will survive everything. Just don't let there be a civil war.
