Zvi Yehezkeli, News 13's commentator on Arab affairs, spoke today (Sunday) with Erel Segal and Yariv Oppenheimer on 103FM about the wave of terror that is hitting Israel.
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During the interview, a conflict developed between Yehezkeli and Oppenheimer over the desired policy toward the Palestinians.
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Yehezkeli Fatah: "The owner of the house in Gaza is Hamas, and Hamas will not go along with all sorts of whims of Jihad, we had that in previous cases too, you remember. Hamas sometimes let Jihad clash with Israel in Abu al-Ata and got carried away, and sometimes it also prevented them. Islamic Jihad has a different agenda, it is more activated by Iran and they would like to see this flare-up there, and I think that now the Hamas government has something to lose by entering the conflict.".
Oppenheimer wondered: "What do they have to lose?""
Yehezkeli: "You asked me what the logic is, so I'll tell you that Hamas currently doesn't want to enter into a conflict with Israel because of the Islamic Jihad skirmish. The Islamic Jihad skirmish in Jenin is not a reason for Hamas to fire missiles.".
""Now, you sit and say, 'Look, Zvi said that Hamas actually has something to lose. Workers and merchants are leaving the Gaza Strip in a precedent-setting manner, which hasn't happened for years, and Hamas already sees that it has something to lose.' Then the day will come when something happens with Hamas and Yahya Sinwar will again make the jihad decision. You know, every kilo of cement that enters the Gaza Strip, in the end, the priority is for jihad.
""It reminds me of the discussions about the 'Coca-Cola' factories that they wanted to build in Gaza after 'Protective Edge.' They wanted to bring investments to Gaza, so that Gaza would drown in investments, even in high-tech, and it wouldn't be worth going to war. Yahya Sinwar said, 'Keep in mind, the day I fire a missile, you won't go to work,' and these investments stopped. Hamas has a tactical interest right now not to do that (escalate the situation).
""Do you know what some of his considerations are? It's burning brightly in the West Bank. Today I saw a quote from a security source, 'Hamas is behind the incitement and this whole wave.' Walla brothers, where have you been sleeping? It's been Hamas for a long time, it's been Hamas since 'Guardian of the Walls,' it's been Hamas all the time. Why would Hamas now enter a missile conflict with Israel and lose a quarter of the achievements it has?"'
At this point, Oppenheimer and Ezekiel began to confront each other.
Oppenheimer: "If Hamas had done what it did in 2014-2015, essentially allowing Islamic Jihad to avenge the killing of the three, it would also create deterrence for us. There are things that deter Israel too. Right now we have eliminated three Jihad operatives. Jihad, as a precedent, will not shoot, all the previous times they have shot.".
Yehezkeli: "This is factually incorrect. You killed many times in the West Bank and no one fired from Gaza.".
Oppenheimer: "Unlike the previous government that suffocated Gaza, this government is not suffocating Gaza and the fact is that Gaza is not burning. Didn't Hamas become stronger even when they were under siege? Of course it became stronger. It's not the 20,000 workers that are making Hamas stronger.".
Yehezkely: "They are now holding their breath until the next confrontation. Read their texts.".
Oppenheimer: "Your method was tried, Bibi tried, you starved Gaza, and the citizens of Israel paid the price. There is a government that does not starve Gaza and we do not pay the price.".
Yehezkeli: "Yariv, do you read Arabic? Do you know Arabic?".
Oppenheimer: "Your analysis at the beginning of the program that you were scared of yourself, of the things you said, that's the reality. I may not know Arabic, but I understand people. When you starve people, you strengthen the extremists, and when you allow them a reasonable, basic existence, suddenly they have something to lose. And suddenly, you know what? Hamas is not getting stronger, it's getting weaker, because suddenly it has to ask its public, 'Why did I go to war?'".
Yehezkely: "Yariv, I wasn't scared of myself. I understand this small circumstance that Hamas has an interest right now, why? It has been waging a struggle against you for decades, and you, as a Westerner who doesn't know Arabic, don't read Hamas' writings, you don't know what's in the textbooks. I was in your place too. You don't know what Hamas is and you don't know what the struggle that Hamas is waging is.".
Oppenheimer continued the confrontation, saying: "I talk to more Palestinians than Zvika talks to,",
And he said to Ezekiel: "Go to the 'Ad Kan' association and tell me that you are talking to Arabs. You are talking to settlers, you are a member of the Yamin association.".
As a result, Yehezkeli decided to hang up the call.
