Yaron London: Religious Jews, Haredim are held to be righteous...
Sherry Roth: "They also have attempts.".
London: Mainly the emissaries of rabbis...
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Sherry Roth: "They have attempts too, you know.".
London: But there are terrible quarrels between Degel Hatorah and Agudat Yisrael. What are they fighting about?
Sherry Roth: "So that's it, we thought the quarrels of 1989, about half a century has passed since those quarrels that bled the Haredi street, and here we are back in this corner again...
I think the Hasidic faction of United Torah Judaism should kiss Avigdor Lieberman's feet every morning, because thanks to him, the Torah flag has nothing to threaten. And the Torah flag, it must be said, is the Lithuanian faction of United Torah Judaism. If Liberman had not brought the governance law, I assume that by now the Torah flag would be waving the whip of 'We will run alone.'.
If Deri thanks Lieberman every morning that thanks to him Eli Yishai does not exist, now the Hasidim should thank Lieberman accordingly. The threats of Degel Hatorah have become petty, along the lines of, "We will not make it to the faction meeting.".
London tries to figure out what it's all about. Sherry explains.
""United Torah Judaism is an Ashkenazi Haredi party, but within it there are two factions: The first faction is the Hasidic faction, headed by the Rebbe of Gur, this is the faction that was until 1989 the only one in Torah Judaism, the only one that ruled. Rabbi Shach came in 1989 and said, gentlemen, we also exist, and we - this is the Lithuanian faction, the 'Flag of the Torah'. They ran for elections then, fought with each other, literally street fights, pashkavilim and everything that usually accompanies that in the Haredi community - and then it became quiet, because the two parts united. Like what we see in Shas: Eli Yishai and Aryeh Deri - let's say they were each running separately and then united - this is what happened in Torah Judaism.
""This is, to be honest, a proven recipe for trouble because some will fight others. Fortunately for the movement, it has been quiet there until now, and even when they fought - it was right under the radar. It was very difficult for us journalists to get to the spicy material of the fights, and we had to settle for the fights of Shas.".
""What's been happening in recent weeks is that suddenly our columns are filling up with color, and this time from the Ashkenazi side of the Haredi parties... It turns out that the Lithuanian guys are fighting with the Hasidic ones, both of whom are not "snickers.".
""How is this expressed? Externally, it is expressed in the Lithuanians boycotting the faction meetings. This is something I don't remember happening in recent years. They simply don't come, that means Uri Maklev and Moshe Gafni, in reverse order, simply don't come to the faction meetings - and this is an unpleasant step, because then journalists are snooping. The Hasidic faction really doesn't like journalistic snooping. When I myself started investigating, they told me, why are the Lithuanians taking their dirty laundry out? In other words, they claimed that there was no need to talk about it.".
Moti Kirshenbaum: Is the majority Hasidic?
Sherry Roth: "This is exactly the point. This is exactly what the struggle is about. Who is the majority? The Lithuanians say, we are 60%, the Hasidic 40%, the Hasidic say exactly the opposite. The Lithuanians are ready for a 50-50 compromise, and the truth is that no sample or anything has ever been conducted to test the strength of each of them, not even internally.".
London: If you remember the Haredi history from the 1950s-60s, the children of the Hasidim were actually educated in Lithuanian institutions. Because the Haredi educational institutions, and this is a matter of history since the beginning of the Hasidic movement, were Lithuanian yeshivots.
Sherry Roth: "That's right. It didn't used to be. Today it is.".
London: Today there is no such hegemony, right?
Sherry Roth: "That's right. Today there is. More than that, once upon a time, Gur Hasidim, and even Chabadniks studied at the Ponovizh Yeshiva, it was normal. Today that won't happen. A Chabadnik won't be accepted into the yeshiva.".
Kirshenbaum: Which way is this going? Could there be a split?
Shari Roth: "It's currently going in an unclear direction. There will be no split. But, they don't come to faction meetings, they won't submit to Tzachi Hanegbi the list of who serves on each committee, because there's a battle over that too - how many from each side will serve on the committees.".
Kirshenbaum: So that's why the committees are delayed?
Sherry Roth: "That's also why. They're one of the factions that's holding back. And what do they say? They told me this: Meklev and Gafni are faster. More diligent than Ichler and Mozes, they'll get into every committee first, maybe even sleep in the Knesset, who knows...they'll catch up, and that's it - whoever catches up first, he's in the committee, he's the member. After all, if there are no members in agreement, that's how it works. And then we'll see Mozes sleeping in one room, Gafni in another, an alarm clock for when to get into the committee, who gets in first...""
London: What are the interests? What, money?
Shari Roth: (Firmly) "No, no, you can say anything about the United Torah Judaism MKs, but really, in United Torah Judaism we don't find corruption... The consideration is who will work harder. It's no secret that Gafni and McCleb are very hardworking people who really care about influence in committees, and they clearly want to get to every committee, to have their say.".
""Gaffney can't stay out of the committees and not say what he has to say... When he has something in his stomach, he has to go in, see Eichler sitting there for him, it doesn't seem right to him.".
""There's another problem, by the way: What about the seventh MK? They have former MK Yaakov Asher, who was a very successful MK...
London: Yaakov, what?... (Turning to Motti Kirshenbaum, "Who is this? Did you hear the name?")
Shari Roth: "Formerly, the mayor of Bnei Brak, was a very active MK in the previous term, was a very successful mayor in Bnei Brak. Considered very successful. He is currently unemployed. In other words, he is the secretary general of Degel Hatorah but not an MK, and they would like Litzman, as deputy minister, to resign from the Knesset in his favor.".
Kirshenbaum: We have to finish, but it sounds very interesting...
Sherry Roth: "And this is just the beginning of the quarrel...""
Kirshenbaum: If it worsens, you will return to us.
London: You should have been a yeshiva head, you're such a mess...
Sherry Roth (smiling): "My children will be in my place...""
